Rachel Higginson on Intuitive Eating, Body Image, and Sports Nutrition

In this episode of the Y Health Podcast, host Dr. Cougar Hall interviews Rachel Higginson, the Director of Sports Nutrition for BYU Athletics, about the evolving role of nutrition in athletic performance and everyday health. Rachel shares her journey from clinical dietetics to sports nutrition, highlighting the growth of the nutrition program at BYU, particularly after joining the Big 12. 

Key topics discussed include: 

• Intuitive Eating: Learning to listen to the body's natural hunger and fullness cues.
• Balancing Nutrition for Athletes: The importance of carbohydrates for pre-workout energy and protein for post-workout recovery.
• Hydration and Performance: How sweat testing informs customized hydration plans for athletes.
• Nutrition Myths and Social Media Influence: Addressing misinformation and the dangers of extreme dietary rules.
• The Mental and Emotional Side of Eating: How food choices, body image, and societal pressures impact overall well-being.
• Practical Tips for Parents: How to handle picky eaters and create a positive food environment for children.

Rachel also discusses her upcoming book, "Pizza Boy", which explores picky eating in a fun and relatable way. The conversation wraps up with an insightful discussion on body image, self-worth, and the spiritual connection between body and soul, encouraging a balanced and compassionate approach to health.
 

Recorded, Edited & Produced by Christy Gonzalez, Harper Xinyu Zhang, Kailey Hopkins, and Tanya Gale

Transcript

Cougar: [00:00:00] Welcome to Y Health, a podcast brought to you by the BYU Public Health Department. I'm Dr. Cougar Hall, a professor here at Brigham Young University where the, you are a student parent, or BYU fan. This podcast will help you navigate the world of public health. Our podcast strives to help individuals receive accurate information regarding public health, so whether it's global or local, we will discuss how it pertains to you. 

Just kick back and relax as we talk about why health. Rachel Higginson, welcome to the Y Health Podcast. 

Rachel: Thank you so much for having me today. 

Cougar: You have no idea. I've really, really been looking forward to this, so if it's okay, let's start with a proper introduction. Okay. If you'll just introduce yourself and what you do, a little bit of your professional background, it'd be great. 

Rachel: Okay. So I'm Rachel Higginson. I am the Director of Sports [00:01:00] Nutrition for the Olympic Sports for BYU Athletics. I've been here for almost 19 years. 

Cougar: Oh wow. 

Rachel: So it's been a long time. I've been able to grow the sports nutrition program over those 19 years and within the last few years since we joined the Big 12, it's really started to, I. 

Explode and we're offering more than we ever have before. I've worked with every single team, but now as we're starting to hire new dieticians to work with our teams, I'm not working with all of them as much, but I, I'm still overseeing all of the operations so. We have, yeah, we recently hired Danielle Lata. 

She's with the basketball team. We hired Lisa Rivera, she's my assistant director, and then Chelsea Woodman, she's over our nutrition center where we feed and fuel our athletes for performance with like, you know, quick, easy to go but nutritious and. Really, you know, good, good fuel sources for them. And, and then we also have Dan Wilcox, he's a [00:02:00] nutritionist and he is over the football team. 

And so we, yeah, we all work together to take care of all of our athletes. So 

Cougar: sports are a big deal here. This feels like a lot of pressure. 

Rachel: You know, it, it is, but it isn't like, I, I think the thing is, is like, to me. These are just these awesome kids that have incredible talent and I just wanna take care of them. 

And they're just kinda like my kids, you know? They're just, they're just here to have fun and get an education and hopefully have fun playing their sport, and we're here to help them be successful with that. So. 

Cougar: I love it. Oh, this is exciting. What is your educational background real quick? 

Rachel: Mm-hmm. So I got a bachelor's degree in dietetics here at BYU. 

Graduated in 2003 and loved it so much. And right after graduation, I got a job, well, first I did an internship at St. Francis Medical Center in Peoria, Illinois. That was an incredible experience. It was a hospital run by these [00:03:00] nuns that just Catholic nuns that just, they really ran a tight ship and it was just such an, I don't know, they were really solid in their, and their beliefs and how they cared for the poor and sick. 

And I just really valued my time there. And then right after completing that year, internship, and actually it's more like a residency in a way. Okay. Because like you've got your degree and then. Now you've gotta like practice it before you can be on your own. So, and then after that, my first job was at Utah Valley Regional Medical Center. 

IHC, and so I worked there. I worked on pediatric, I worked in critical care. I did worked on cancer units, diabetes, car, like really pretty much everything. I worked with all kinds of patients there. And then I worked over at Revere Health, which was the Central Utah Clinic at the time, and I did outpatient counseling, taught weight management classes. 

Pam Hansen and I taught a class together, if you remember her from the PhD program. I know Pam, [00:04:00] yes, Pam. Love, I love Pam. I love Pam too. And so, yeah, we, we worked together there at the clinic and then I got a job at Provo Canyon School. It's a school for troubled youth and that's where I was really exposed to a lot of disordered eating and really became more familiar with, you know, how to help and individuals struggling with that. 

Then during that time I was also working at BYU. They had contracted me out through the, the clinic, through the Revere, and I was just working part-time. And so once I decided that, you know what, I think sports nutrition is where it's at, like this is really what I wanna do, then BYU hired me at that point. 

And so yeah, so that was 19 years ago, and then I've never had another job since then. So. 

Cougar: You have a master's of public health as well? 

Rachel: Yes. And so then in 2023, I graduated with a master's degree in public health. So while I was working Wow. And full-time went to [00:05:00] school. Yeah, I was kind of a crazy time. 

Cougar: Okay. I've learned a lot about you. A, you're a workaholic. You must have 28 hours in your day, Rachel, but you have so much experience in clinical settings in schools, working with athletes. Just what a, what a vast amount of experience you've gathered you've gained throughout your professional career in dietetics. 

So this is really cool 'cause I have a lot of nutrition questions. It feels like I've been teaching health for a while. It feels like this might be the one area I. Where there's just constant, you know, divergent opinions. I don't wanna say misinformation, disinformation, I think there's probably a sliver of truth and many different perspectives when it comes to nutrition. 

Every time I teach a class on nutrition, I feel like, oh boy, I'm gonna step on about a hundred different landmines here. I'm gonna say something about this micronutrient, or I'm gonna say something about this, you know, time restricted [00:06:00] dietary approach or, and it's. If I have 20 students, I have 20 different opinions who are listening to me and waiting for me to say, oh, no, no, no, that's not true. 

Are you aware of A, B, C, or D? Have you read this book? Did you listen to this podcast? And what's it like navigating this space? I. Where everyone's kind of an expert on nutrition and they all kind of disagree. 

Rachel: That's an excellent question. Like very good. So, and that definitely is one of the biggest challenges I do have as a dietician, but I feel like there are some real basic things. 

Number one, we know that everybody has to eat right? So we can agree upon that starvation in any form is not gonna be okay, right? Because we need fuel, our bodies need it. We know that. We think better. When we have proper nutrition, we know that. So yeah. Academic performance for athletes, 100%. We know when an athlete is fueled well, they are going to perform better. 

They're going to have a decreased risk for injury. [00:07:00] So we know these basics. We know that this is like, that, that food definitely is important, but what does that look like for each person? And, and that's where a lot of this, you know, confusion comes in, right. We all have different preferences. We all have things we like. 

Some people have allergies, some people don't have allergies. So to say that there's one exact way of eating that's right for everyone, that is probably, that is misinformation. It's not true. And so you could find some, you know, Instagram or TikTok person that's, you know, promoting their, their way of life. 

And I'm eating this way and it feels so good. And, and that's great. Like that's great for them, but that may not. Work for another person. And you and I were talking a little bit about this before about chocolate and you said how you like to have, you know, three little Hershey kisses, like after a meal. 

Cougar: And did I say three? 

Rachel: You said three. Was it 10? I meant 13. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Somewhere around that. Yeah. So, but that is [00:08:00] something like, that's how I feel like I love. Chocolate. And I pretty much most days have some type of chocolate in my diet, whether it's through a protein drink or a piece of chocolate or chocolate cake. 

I just, I really like it. And so, but for some people that might not be something that they like, that might not bring them any happiness. Right. And so, so kind of now what I'm, I'm going into is, is our relationship with food, right? And so that's the next thing. So we have all of our preferences. We know that we need to eat, but what is our relationship like with food? 

Do we, do, we anguish over every calorie and food morsel that goes into our body. If we're worried about food like that, we don't have a healthy relationship with food. Are we? Are we counting calories every single day? That's not necessarily a good relationship with food. Now, there are times, maybe occasionally when someone's completely unaware of how much they're consuming and they need just a little bit of a, a, maybe a [00:09:00] boost or help maybe temporarily. 

That could be a tool. That could be helpful. But, but if you feel that need and you, you don't have that relationship with your body to know that your body has a beautifully built in calorie counter if you learn how to listen to it. And so that's where like signs of hunger and fullness, like learning how to respond and, and not just, and, and listen to them when you feel satisfied. 

I've, I've had enough to eat. That's, that's time to stop. Your body's telling you if you eat beyond that, what's gonna happen. Well, if you continually don't listen to that, that is when you're gonna start over consuming calories or vice versa. You don't listen to it and then you're not taking in enough calories and now your body's malnourished. 

So that relationship with food is. I think probably one of the biggest things that I work with individuals is, is helping them to establish that. Do you know when you're hungry? Do you know when you've had enough? Now there [00:10:00] are things that are going to, um, impact that. So of course if someone's had a history of dieting, they're gonna struggle. 

They're gonna have to relearn that because guess what, we're all born being intuitive eaters. So I like to use this in, in one of my classes we talk about. A baby. And when a baby's hungry, what do they do? 

Cougar: My babies cried. 

Rachel: They cry. 

Cougar: Yeah. 

Rachel: And if you tried to make 'em laugh when they were hungry. 

Cougar: How did that go? 

Yeah. I'm not successful at making anyone laugh. Unfortunately, 

Rachel: that's not true. But, but yeah, they, they, they, they won't be happy, right? Because they're hungry, it's uncomfortable and they want to eat. And so then once they've been fed and they stop crying, but maybe they have an ounce of milk left, or they have three bites of their baby food left. 

You try to give it to 'em, but they're full. What do they do? 

Cougar: Not happening. Yeah. No, we're throwing it, we're launching it, we're doing whatever. 

Rachel: Yeah. And their little mouths can just clamp so tight. Like you can't get anything in there. Or they'll, they'll throw [00:11:00] up if you try to give them more, because they know intuitively when they've had enough to eat. 

And so what happens in our lives that that makes us, you know. Become a non-intuitive eater is, you know, being forced to eat everything that's on our plate. That's, that's a big one. And, and parents maybe not trusting in, in the, in the effort of trying to make sure that their child is well nourished and has the right nutrients, that they're so worried about that, that they want them to finish everything on their plate and not trusting that. 

If they keep providing their child with enough balance and variety of food and, and let their child determine how much they need that they'll be okay. And that's sometimes hard for a lot of parents because they don't trust it themselves. 

Cougar: Yeah. 

Rachel: And so. So that's a lot of what I do is help individuals, you know, get to that point of where they, they can trust their body again, and they can feel comfortable with that. 

Now, medications are definitely gonna have an impact. [00:12:00] There's antidepressants and birth control and I, I mean, I could keep listing medications that are going to alter someone's ability to recognize those, but, but even with those medications, once I talk with individuals, there's other signs that our body is telling us sometimes like a. 

A difficulty in focusing all of a sudden, whereas before they were fine. That could be a sign that, you know, oh, maybe I need to stop and eat even though the medication maybe suppresses their appetite. And so helping them to identify what healthy eating, like what a healthy eating pattern and schedule looks like is, is a really good start. 

And so, you know, we should be hungry about every three to four hours, so, and maybe three to five. And as we age, we're gonna need less calories. And so as you become comfortable with your own body as we age and our calorie needs decrease, or even on a day where maybe we're just not as active. Our calorie needs aren't as great because calorie needs are not stagnant. 

They change from day to day. [00:13:00] If we are an intuitive eater, we're able to easily adapt to those day to day and then, you know, lifelong changes that are happening. 

Cougar: Wow. You've just covered a lot of ground, Rachel. Thank you. I'm hearing you talk about, you know, eating is pleasurable. It's, uh, you know, a life without eating, a life without eating the foods that you enjoy. 

It's, it's still worth living, I'm sure, but it's, it's just, it's gonna lack that zest and that joy that we're, we're all, you know, it's about joy and so I really appreciate that message. I appreciate, you know, the intuitive eating approach, which is, are we really dialed into our body? Our bodies naturally come that way. 

For whatever reason, again, whether it's medication or whether it's stress or whatever it is, we, we can lose touch with that signal. We might not be opening those emails that are saying, Hey, this is right. I'm satiated. This is right where I want to be. I'm wondering if we can just linger on that just for a moment. 

This intuitive eating, it [00:14:00] feels like, and if, if you just remove the, you know, the meals and the, and the eating out of this, it feels like we've lost some of our intuition. 'cause of technology, because of smartphones. How many of us, when we sit down to eat, we also sit down to unwind by opening our phone and seeing what we've missed in the last three hours where we've been working on something else or sit down to eat and just instinctively at this point, open our laptop and we're gonna watch a video or we're going to catch up on this, whatever it is. 

And so I'm wondering. We don't just eat anymore. Very many of us and a lot of us don't engage in conversation with, you know, either we're eating alone or we're eating with our technology. That feels like that's gonna be a problem for intuitive eating if we're forever, elsewhere with our technology. How are now because of the population you work with? 

These are college athletes. They've grown up, I mean, these [00:15:00] are digital natives they've grown up with. Social media, they've grown up with smartphones. Is this ever a challenge for intuitive eating or am I, am I up in the night? 

Rachel: Yeah, it, it's definitely a challenge. I would say a lot of the athletes that I'm working with, they, they, they seem to stop and eat. 

I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna say that there aren't some that were, that as a challenge, but I would say our niche and even my own children, when they sit down at the table, they'll have their buffet of food in front of them. They pop their headphones in and. They're watching a show as they're eating, and, and you're right, you're not getting the full experience because part of satiety is, you know, the flavor, the texture, the smell, the sight of, of your food, like that, that helps create that satiety. 

And so when you're, you know, distracted, yeah, you're not gonna, you're not gonna be paying attention to those internal cues of hunger and fullness. And so it's easy to overeat or undereat. I mean, it definitely can go both ways. If you've ever had a toddler, you can know how easy it is for them to undereat when [00:16:00] they're interested in watching Bob the builder or, or some other show. 

So, yeah, I would, I, I say that that's definitely a problem. I think though, that we can also look at some of the technology in a way that it, it can be helpful. So for example, when I'm working with one of the athletes, I'll have them, we'll type up an eating schedule. I'm like, okay, based on practice, like this is when I want you eating. 

Breakfast. This is gonna be your pre-workout snack, then we're gonna have lunch, then we're gonna have recovery, nutrition, then we're gonna have dinner, and then we're gonna have your snack at night. And I type that all up and it's in PDF form format, right? Well, where is that information easily accessible on their phone, right? 

And so now they can pull that up as a constant like reminder. And then they can put alarms on their phone to help remind them for those times when maybe they're a little distracted and maybe not being as intuitive because. They're worried about getting to practice on time, and so then they're like, oh, but I forgot my snack. 

You know, I need, I need to eat that. So I'm fueled for practice, but they have this little alarm on their phone, so. I [00:17:00] mean, it can go both ways. We use it to our advantage and, okay, so this quote that I heard the other day, I was in a meeting with some individuals from the Center for Change, and we're just talking because we work closely with them. 

And one of the, one of the medical I, I think she was a medical director, she said to me, or to all of us, she said, any strength overplayed can become a weakness. And that hit me so hard and I thought about that. And so, I mean, so when we're talking about cell phones technology, if it's overplayed or used in the wrong way, it can become a weakness, but then it can also be something that's, that's really helpful. 

I think about that with like athletes in their drive to. Eat Well. One of the reasons I love working with athletes so much is because of their drive. You know, they come to my office and then next week when we do a followup appointment, they've worked on almost every single goal. Now when you meet with people who are our age, you know, in their forties, and [00:18:00] no, that doesn't usually happen sometimes, but not usually because we're more set in our ways and, and there's something just so beautiful about, you know, working with these individuals who are just so driven and so motivated and they're like, they, they want to know. 

They'll say, Rachel, you tell me what to do. Tell me exactly what to eat, how to do it, and that's what I'm gonna do because I wanna be my best. And that trait right there is what can make them such incredible athletes. But that trait also, if overplayed. Then can become their downfall, and then that can become the reason why they develop disordered eating or start getting bone stress fractures because of malnutrition. 

And that can be the reason they start performing not as well, and maybe not sleeping as well, because now there's this anxiety, this increased anxiety associated with food and trying to eat so perfectly that now it's. Not healthy. And so that's, I think probably, you know, along the lines of like that healthy [00:19:00] relationship with food. 

That's also the thing we're looking for is that constant balance. You know, how do I fuel my body in a way that I'm getting all of the right nutrients that my body needs, but still allowing myself to have chocolate and still allowing myself to be human. And knowing that there's gonna be days where I overeat, it's gonna happen. 

But when you're an intuitive eater, if you do have a day that you overeat. Usually the next day or the next meal, you compensate for that. You don't feel as hungry. And so then you listen to that and, and you go on and your BA body will, you know, balance that out for the most part. So 

Cougar: love it. I'm so glad you mentioned that about discipline. 

I've noticed this in myself from time to time, and I've certainly seen this in some of my students, and let's be honest, so many of our students. Are incredibly disciplined. That's how you get a 34 in the a CT. That's how you have a perfect 4.0. That's how you're able to take 16 credit hours and play tennis at BYU and whatever it is. 

But there's such a [00:20:00] fine line between that becoming, you know, obsessive or compulsive or, you know, using that discipline. Which can then fuel disordered eating. I'm really thankful that you said that. It feels like when we talk about nutrition, we often talk in, you know, it's all or nothing, black and white, really, really. 

Kinda rigid rules and language and it feels like it should, the line should be a little more blurred depending on your personal needs, depending on what you're doing right now. Your activity levels, depending on where you're at in life. And I mean, I'll, I'll be honest, I'm entering this new phase of life. 

Where if I chose, I do have three or four hours a day for kind of self-improvement, whether I wanna read or exercise or, or take an online course or, you know, meal plan. But as a college student, I didn't have that space. And when I was starting my family and beginning my career, I, I just, if I had 45 minutes to kind of focus on, you know, physical activity or to meal plan, that was a really good [00:21:00] day. 

And so it feels like we need to have more self-compassion. We need to have a little more understanding. A little less rigidity, maybe more be more malleable, more pliable as we interact with our food environment. Yeah. I'm all over the place as per usual. Yeah. But I'm, I'm, I'm feeling some different things as you're explaining, and I'm hoping there's something there for our listeners too. 

Rachel: Yeah, no, and I, I, I definitely agree with that. And you're, and you're right, there are different phases in our life, you know, I. I think even for myself personally right now, as I've gotten older, there's certain foods I eat and I immediately feel like swelling in my hands and feet. I don't know exactly what's happening. 

I'm not gonna say what those foods are 'cause I don't wanna, you know, alter anyone else's idea of what is good or bad. Right? But, but, so for me it's like, oh, well I'm not gonna eat that. That just for whatever reason, I don't, and not known to me even, like, I'm, that, that doesn't make me feel good. So I'm choosing not to eat that, not because of any strict rule. 

It's just simply based off of like, that, that just doesn't feel good to [00:22:00] me. And whereas when I was younger, I, I, I don't think I even thought about stuff like that. You know, I just. I ate, I ate what I liked and, and didn't even worry about how it made me feel. And so, so you're right. Things, things change throughout our lives and, and our priorities change. 

You know, for, for an athlete, a lot of times it's just getting them to get their regular meals in. And sometimes that does mean a vending machine. And, and some people are probably gonna be like, I can't believe a dietician tells them to go to a vending machine. But the worst thing that they could eat before they work out is absolutely nothing. 

That's the worst thing. Now, are there, is there good, better, best? Yeah. I mean, we can debate that, right? But there's still so many factors, their preferences, what they like, their allergies and so forth. And so I'm not telling people to go out there and just eat whatever and nothing matters. That's not the message I'm trying to say, but. 

But I agree that to some extent we worry so much of okay, organic and what are the food colorings in it and this and that. And, [00:23:00] and while there's a, a lot of good research and, and I definitely think that our food supply definitely needs a re-haul for sure. Like there's no argument there. If we get so caught up in that. 

What are we doing then? Now we're not, we're we're just not eating because, well, there just wasn't anything good and so I'm just, I'm just not gonna eat anything and now we're not fueled for. You know, to be able to sit down and sit through a an hour lecture or, um, or go through a three hour practice just because I couldn't find an organically made sandwich. 

You know, like that's, that's harmful, that's a harmful way of, of thinking. So, um, and not all of these students have. You know, the kind of money that it takes to be able to eat like that. And so you do have to work with where people are at. I saw this and, and I think one thing that we really need to do too is we need to step back and look at ourselves and [00:24:00] observe without judgment. 

And that's what I do when people come into my office. I'm not, I'm not judging them. I'm not thinking, oh, that was really good that you did that. Oh, that was really bad that you did that. Those are not my thoughts. Ever, ever. I'm just listening to what they're doing and I'm trying to decide, okay, what are some obstacles and what are some barriers and what can I do to help them see that? 

To help make some improvements upon, you know, what they're already doing. And I, I watched this, this Instagram video of this mom, and she was doing this little like, plate prep for her toddler, and she had this little, you know, like the little, I don't know, like I. Four little slots on the plate, and she was just putting different foods in each one. 

And so she had put some little Debbie's donuts in one, and I think there was like some Pop-Tarts in another. And then she put, I don't know, there was some type of juice. And anyways, by the end of the plate, everyone's gonna look at that and they're gonna be like, what is that mother feeding her child? But I look at it and I think, okay, here's a [00:25:00] mom who's seeing other people on TikTok or Instagram. 

Doing these plate preps right for their kids. Like, this is what I feed my kid. Look, I'm a good mom. I'm taking care of my kid. That's what I see happening right there. Like I saw that. I saw this sweet mom really cares about her kid and she's doing the best she can with what she knows. Now, is that a completely sound meal? 

No. It's not, we can't argue that, but, but what would I do if she came to my office? How would I help her? And I would just help her to see, okay, we need to add in, you know, we need some fruits and vegetables, or what are some things we can do? Oh, my child doesn't like fruits or vegetables. Well, let's try, let's try. 

It takes 10 to 20 times at least of trying a new food before we really know if we like it or not. And we can spit food out if we don't like it. And that, that kind of seems like a, a taboo maybe way of handling it for some people. But I mean, you think of the biggest fear of like trying a new food is if you [00:26:00] don't like it and you have to swallow it. 

I don't, I don't wanna swallow food that I don't like either. You know? And so, so there's just an approach of, of looking at these, looking at ourselves in a way of where we can just observe. And without judgment, why do I do the things I do? Why don't I eat regular meals? Why, why don't I eat fruits and vegetables? 

Why don't I get enough protein? You know, like, why, what, what is is, is the, the block or the barricade, or what's hindering me from this? And then what can I do to, you know, start making changes? And I would say the biggest thing for people is to just pick one thing. Everyone comes to me and they want a this beautiful new meal plan. 

And do you know how overwhelming that is? You go to someone and you tell them, okay. I'm not eating well, tell me exactly what to do. You tell me everything to eat. Well, that's really overwhelming for me too, because for me to tell you every single thing when [00:27:00] I don't, like, we just met like, I don't even know all these details of your life. 

Like that's, that's really hard. And the other thing though, too, for the individual, they're asking that and they think that's what they want, but they don't because that's a complete overhaul. So you're telling me in one day, you want me to tell you to completely change everything that you're eating so that you can be the healthiest possible. 

Well, that's just not realistic, and most of the time people will just. They, they, they flop. It just doesn't happen. And so, so just picking that one thing, and that's what I do with the athletes when they come to my office, we, we pick certain things. We pick, we prioritize what the most important things are. 

They work on that for a couple weeks, and we add to that and we just keep adding. I've had athletes that have met with me for four years, their whole career, or five if they're like a super senior and, and we meet regularly and they just keep learning and keep adding on top of that. So. 

Cougar: So cool. Oh my God, I just, I'm kind of envious of your job to work with athletes and be able to take this [00:28:00] really practical, kind of long term approach, so to speak on. 

Okay, so this is a crazy idea. I kind of want to go rapid fire and just. I'm not gonna time you, but maybe 32nd answers and I'll just, and they're not, they're just all over the map. If I'm asking the wrong question, just say wrong question. Here's what you should have asked. Is that all right? Got it all over the map. 

Are you ready for this? I love it. Yes. I'm totally springing this on you, but we did, we did not talk about this pre-workout. 

Rachel: Pre-workout carbohydrates are the most important thing. Caffeine, not a fan, and it is banned by the NCAA for athletic performance and it can hinder your sleep amongst other things. 

So making sure that you have good carbohydrates before your working workout is one of the best pre-workouts. 

Cougar: Perfect timeframe. When do I have my pre-workout meal? 

Rachel: So that depends on your individual tolerance. And so some people can have it 15 minutes before they work out. Some people have to have it an hour. 

So it really just depends on, you know, your individual level of [00:29:00] tolerance. And then also the sport. You know, there's certain things you're not gonna eat before you go swimming that you, when you're horizontal versus. Verdict. So the type of sport and what your athletic event you're involved in can also have an impact. 

Cougar: Perfect. How soon after a training session am I eating and what am I eating? 

Rachel: Okay, 10 to 10 to 30 minutes. You actually have about an hour, but some of the research. Research shows that even that 10 to 30 minutes is like the optimal time to really start that recovery process, and you want roughly about 50 to a hundred grams of carbohydrates and roughly 20 grams of protein. 

Again, that's gonna vary from person to person, but I, that's a pretty good recommendation to get started 

Cougar: for your athletes. How many grams of protein per day. Based on body weight. Is there like, do you have a formula? 

Rachel: Yeah, so I actually use calories per kilogram, and so it's 1.2 to 2.0 grams per kilogram, and that varies depending on the sport and the need of the individual. 

We also have an in-body scanner, so we measure body composition and so based off of the results, I can make changes on that, but [00:30:00] usually I give athletes a range because I don't really believe in absolutes and I like them to have a little wiggle room. So when I give 'em their protein needs, usually we're around like 1.4 to 1.8, but. 

It can vary. 

Cougar: So what type of protein? 

Rachel: We do all kinds of protein, animal protein, plant protein. Again, it, it depends on, on the athlete, you know, I have athletes that are allergic to whey and so we can't do milk proteins and so we have to do a lot of, like, a lot of protein drinks are gonna be more like plant-based ones, just ingredients is one that we really love for that. 

They have a really good vegan one. And then, yeah, animal protein, like all, all different proteins. I, I encourage all protein. 

Cougar: It time restricted eating. Is that, are you a fan? So we have people who are now saying, you should really have 12 to 16 hours each day where you're not eating. Of course that's gonna include about eight hours of sleep for most of us. 

But some people are, they're shutting down like, don't eat after 8:00 PM then I don't have food the next day till lunch or maybe 10 in the morning. Thoughts on that? Well, 

Rachel: I, I [00:31:00] definitely agree that there should be a, a large chunk of the 24 hour time period where we're not eating, but to be, have absolutes like that. 

Like, I'm not gonna eat after eight o'clock. Well, let's just say an athlete, like they got home from a game at 10 o'clock and they have that rule. Now they're not gonna get their recovery nutrition in. Now they're increasing their risk of injury. Now they're not gonna perform as well. 'cause it takes 24 hours to recover from one practice. 

And so skipping that one meal is doing more harm than it's helping. So. Yeah. While we're sleeping, we definitely don't, I, I, I don't ever have anyone wake up and eat in the middle of the night to meet protein needs. You never wanna interrupt sleep for things like that. That was kind of, I, I can't remember how many years ago, maybe about 10 years ago, I had some athletes that were, were doing that, waking up in the middle of the night to meet their protein needs. 

And I'm like, no, we're not gonna do that. Don't, don't interrupt sleep. But yeah, I just, I mean, eating every, like I said, every three to four, every three to five hours and then, you know when it's time to [00:32:00] go to bed. You go to bed and then you don't think about it, about eating until you wake up and maybe you're up for an hour or two before you have breakfast. 

So roughly what? That might be about 10 to 12 hours. You know, if you're just naturally following that pattern, it kind of naturally happens. 

Cougar: So, perfect. Hydration. What are your hydration rules? 

Rachel: Yeah, so we actually just started last year. We do sweat testing on our athletes so we can determine if they lose a lot of salt, a little bit medium amount of salt through their sweat, and then we're able to give them personalized hydration recommendations. 

This has been life-changing for some of our athletes, especially those who move lots of salt, and so some of these athletes will need like. A thousand plus milligrams before, and then during, and then after they work out just to replenish all of the salt that they've lost. And so that varies. That's genetically determined. 

That'll vary from person to person. Generally speaking, for hydration though, you, I do [00:33:00] 30, 35 milliliters per kilogram. You know, that's a general way of, of, of getting like, you know, just general hydration recommendations. But then athletes. Need more on top of that. And so I recommend two to three large gulps every 15 to 20 minutes during practice that helps prevent water overloading. 

We talk a lot about not having the slushy stomach. If you have a slushy stomach, it's like the equivalent of just looking at a water bottle and saying, I'm so thirsty and not drinking it. Even though it's in your stomach, it's not being absorbed. And so that's where you stop and make sure you get something salty so that your body can, um, fully absorb that water. 

And then urine color is a really good indicator of your hydration status. And so I hate comparing urine to food, but it's a light lemonade color is kind of really what you're looking at. And you know, like that's, that's a really good indicator. You don't want it to be super, you know, clear. And if it is occasionally, that's okay, but if you're, if your urine is constantly clear, you can over hydrate and. 

And [00:34:00] that's where you would come into something like a hypo or too low of salts and, and that can be just as dangerous as the other type of dehydration too. So the hyponatremia, too much salt and not enough water. So. 

Cougar: Awesome. Switch gears real quick. Gimme one or two tips for parents who have kids who are picky eaters. 

Rachel: Well, Cougar, I'm so glad you asked this question. I actually just wrote a book called Pizza Boy. Okay. That is gonna be out on Amazon and Barnes Noble in the next few months here, and it's, it's about picky eating. I, I wrote the book for my nephew, his name's Matthew, and he's autistic and he loves pizza. 

And to the point of where pizza's. All he wants to eat. And, and so I've, I've teased him for years. Matthew, you know, your skin is made out of pizza and is that s sauce? I smell like you. Mm-hmm. You smell kind of saucy. And so anyways, that just, that's what inspired, inspired the book. But so many parents, you know, do they struggle with this, with their kids being picky eaters? 

See, I'm trying to remember, oh, [00:35:00] Ellen Satter wrote a really good book on, what was it titled? Oh, how to Get Your Kid to Eat, but Not Too Much, I believe that's the book. And I've, I've, I've loved her concept in her book for years and years and, and have used it with my own children as well. And one of her, um, core beliefs there is that. 

You make sure that, um, the parent is responsible. Like I said earlier, for what is in front of your child. You make sure that they get a balance of nutrients, but they get to decide for themselves, you know, how much and what they're eating in front of them. We can encourage them to try new foods and so we can say things like, let's smell it, let's. 

What color is it? What does it, you know, what does it feel like? Is it squishy? Is it hard? Is it, you know, just like, so we can ask them to just kind of explore what their sense is, what this food is like, so you know, what's the color, what's the texture? Is this a crunchy food? Is this a soft food? And [00:36:00] just, just explore that and just kind of have fun with it. 

And then let them know that if they don't. Like that food that they can spit it out. It's okay, and we're gonna, but we're gonna keep trying it. And that's fine. Like you don't have to, like all foods, I, this isn't something that she recommended in her book, but one of the things I did was I allowed my children to have three foods that they never had to try. 

That they have just determined that those were the worst possible foods. And if I had it on the dinner table, they didn't have to put it on their plate. And so that was kind of fun. And that could change. It didn't have to be stagnant like. They could maybe if they decided they liked green beans, then green beans could go off the list and peas came on the list, whatever, you know, they wanted. 

I think the biggest thing is not letting dinner time become a battle. Don't let it become a battle. It needs to be a positive experience. And I have, in the 20 years that I've worked here, I have worked with individuals who have had such negative experiences as children at the table. It has impacted their ability to fuel themselves [00:37:00] as an athlete. 

And so I've watched that happen. And so we, we don't want this to become a time of yelling or belittling. It should be, it should be a time that we all get to sit together and enjoy each other's company and talk about our day, explore new foods, have fun trying new foods, and, and not, not shame anyone into feeling bad because they don't, you know, like a particular food. 

And I think we probably all struggle with that to a little bit. I mean, at least I know in our generation, I remember, and my parents are wonderful, I do have to put this in there, but I do remember one night sitting at the table and because I wouldn't eat something on my plate for hours, hours, you know, and, but we, we just, we just can't, we can't do that. 

You know, we need to. Let it let food be fun and positive. 

Cougar: Give me a couple of afterschool snack options. Ooh, great. For kiddos. 

Rachel: Um, let's see if you wanna get some protein in them. I love that ranch dressing. So get like a, a low fat, [00:38:00] or it doesn't even have to be low fat. I like actually the full fat, like Greek yogurt or, yeah, it's just like a plain yogurt and then you put ranch powder in it. 

Mix that up and then give them, you know. Carrots and veggies that they can dip inside that some crackers, some whole grain crackers. That could be a really good afterschool snack. Or like cheese, and cheese and crackers and fruit. I mean, just simple, like it doesn't have to be anything super fancy. Gosh, what's another one? 

I am, I'm a big fan. Oh, if you wanna do another one with yogurt, uh, a sweet option as you can take. I love to take the just ingredients protein powder and mix that in with Greek yogurt, and now you have a fruit dip, so their tropical paradise is delicious. It's so good. It's like a, I don't know, it's just delicious. 

And so that one's really good with, to have like a little fruit dip where you can make a parfait out of that, you know, a sandwich if they didn't have a sandwich for lunch on some whole grain bread and meat and cheese, like that's a really good option. Tortillas are always fun to roll, different kinds of things in a whole grain tortilla, and you can wrap all kinds of different things in there. 

Leftover [00:39:00] meat from the night before with some lettuce and some dressing. I could keep going. 

Cougar: That's awesome. Yeah, you nailed it. I'm, I'm going in reverse order here as far as the day, a couple of breakfast options for kiddos. Are you, are you, are you a cold cereal fan? If you're not, what are we substituting? 

Rachel: So I'm not a huge. Cold cereal fan for breakfast, but I'm not gonna say that I, I haven't, don't eat it at times myself or that it's not, you know, sometimes appropriate. It's just that it's not something that's gonna last for a really long time and there's not enough protein and and fat in it. Like you need that protein and fat to have that satiety. 

And so if you're gonna have some cereal, I would say have. You know, a 2% or a whole milk, or even maybe like a Fair Life milk that has higher protein content in it, and then a whole green cereal, if possible would be a good option. Then maybe put some fruit on it. So for example, like shredded wheat with the fair life milk and banana slices, you know, and you could drizzle a little honey on that or something if you wanted, you know, I mean, that [00:40:00] definitely could be an option. 

The high sugar cereals just aren't gonna, they're not gonna stick with them very long, and my children on their own. Told me that, they're like, I can't eat cereal for breakfast. Mom, I, I don't feel good. But they learned that I didn't forbid cereal from being in the house. That's something that they've been able to discover on their own. 

And I, I actually throw away quite a bit of cereal. Now. It's, you know, it's more of like a treat in our house of like something that you have at night, like after dinner, you know, like Cocoa Pebbles or something like that. There, there's the chocolate. So yeah. Cereal, it's, yeah. Kind of gray. It's dessert it sounds like. 

Yeah. It can mean more dessert. Yeah. 

Cougar: Great. Let's, let's shift, let's shift gears to weight loss. How often am I standing on a scale? 

Rachel: Yeah. So if you're trying to lose weight, you, it's reasonable to at least once a week, weigh yourself. If you find yourself starting to get anxiety and stress every time you step on the scale you are giving. 

Weight and the scale. Too much power in your life. [00:41:00] And I, I actually experienced this in my life after I had my daughter. I got put on bed rest when I was pregnant with her, and I gained so much weight and it, it wasn't coming off as fast as it did that first time. And so I had told people for years, only weigh yourself once a week. 

But here I was feeling pressure, being a dietician, feeling like I needed to get back in shape right, myself. And, and it just wasn't coming off. And so. I started weighing myself every day and then I started getting this tightness in my chest and I realized, oh my goodness, this is like consuming me. And I thought, Rachel Higginson, what are you doing? 

You are going against everything you've counseled people to do. And so I took that scale outside. I don't know what neighbor was watching me that day. And I went and I got a hammer and I smashed that. Ridiculous scale. That's great to smithereens and yeah, I, I just, it was awful. And, but, but that was very empowering because it, I, I realized, you know, what I'd been recommending was so good, but that for myself to have experienced that [00:42:00] and really know like that, that dilemma that someone can experience, you know, when they give the scale too much power. 

So I would say never more than once a week. 

Cougar: Awesome. Is there a. Number of pounds I should be shooting for if I am trying to lose weight per week. 

Rachel: Yeah, about a half a pound to two pounds per week of weight loss is considered healthy. So that's where you're not gonna be losing weight at such a rate that we're worried about, you know, malnutrition and you know your skin too like that. 

When you see people who lose weight very, very quickly, that's when. You can start to see more of like the, your skin just can't even keep up with those changes either. And so, yeah, so half a pound to two pounds per week is, is good. Healthy weight loss. Now sometimes you might lose a little bit more one week and, and you know, maybe not as much the next, but as a general rule of 

Cougar: thumb, is it common for people to plateau at some point? 

Say, I need to lose 20 pounds and I hate to say it that way, I need, but let's say [00:43:00] that's that's the target weight I'm shooting for and I'm gonna try to be in a healthy zone. I need to lose 20 pounds and maybe the first seven come off, actually, as you've just described, I'm losing a pound a week and I'm now two and a half months into this thing feeling really good. 

Now I'm not seeing any more changes. Yeah. Is that, is that common? And what, what, what can I do? 

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's very common because you're, you're making a calorie deficit, right? And so it makes sense that at one point. The calorie level that you're at is now maintaining the weight that you're at. You're no longer in a deficit, so yeah, you're maintaining at that point. 

And so you might have to decrease it a little bit. I usually do it, um, with the athletes. This may not be for the general population, but with the athletes, I usually do that in about five to 800 increments of calories at a time. I don't, I don't like to go more than that because number one, if you're constantly hungry all the time because you have too severe of a calorie restriction, it's just [00:44:00] counterproductive at that point. 

So. 

Cougar: There a balance between physical activity and nutrition. I've, in the past, I've told students I exercise to take care of my bones and my muscles and my heart, and my mental and emotional health. I don't actually exercise to lose weight. I use small caloric restriction over time to lose weight. Am I teaching false doctrine there? 

Rachel: Yes, you can create a calorie deficit through exercise and through nutrition, and if you do it too extreme on either end, this is where you're gonna feel the fatigue. You're not gonna be able to recover as well. Increase the risk of injury even if you're not an athlete, like if you start an exercise program and you're not taking in the right nutrients in order for your body to build that muscle and to repair daily, you. 

Then now it's counterproductive. You're actually harming yourself and you're, and it's, it's not, not going to be as beneficial, um, to your overall health. So is that answering your question? I mean Yeah, no, that's really 

Cougar: good. I just, I just know [00:45:00] from time to time we'll ramp up our physical activity so that we can lose a few pounds. 

But for me personally, as I ramp up my physical activity. I need to eat more. 

Rachel: And so, and you should, it's just that balance. And you still can eat more as you increase that physical activity and still have a calorie deficit. Yes. So, yes. Yeah, you definitely can do that. 

Cougar: Perfect. That's probably the end of my rapid fire, but I, I'm gonna, I have another question, but this is take some time on this one. 

We're trying to follow our savior, Jesus Christ. Our lives are blessed because we understand our Heavenly Father's plan, a plan of happiness. We understand what a gift it is for us to receive bodies and to come and have this mortal experience. We're told that we are to well, we're commanded to love God and to love our neighbor as ourself, and sometimes that as our ourself gets missed, we are to love ourselves. 

And yet, you're not unique. If you've had challenges [00:46:00] loving your body. You're not unique if you have difficulty identifying your divine worth. When you live in an environment which often is toxic in an environment with messages like it feels better to be skinny than chocolate cake tastes being swimsuit ready, especially for females. 

But I feel this as a male an an incredible pressure. To have a certain body shape, size, the world, places value on us based on our outward appearance. We all know that's bogus, and yet for so many people, including myself, it's a pretty regular challenge to really, really tap into what's my worth. My worth is my intellect. 

My worth is my sense of humor. It's my character, it's my ability to love. I. And to be charitable and to be kind [00:47:00] and to serve others and to like, we can go on and on and yet so often, all of those things that really do make us of worth fall by the wayside. When we look in the mirror, when we step on a scale, when we go to the gym to exercise and we see that, we don't compare that Apparently I'm living in this universe where everyone else just. 

Looks photoshopped, but they're not photoshopped. They're literally right in front of me. So those feelings are real for so many of us. You're working as a dietician. You are right in the middle of the crosshairs here, trying to promote a balanced, nutritious approach to fueling our bodies, trying to help athletes do their best. 

How am I supposed to navigate this space? How am I supposed to be reminded of what my true worth is? My true value? 

Rachel: From an LDS perspective, we believe that the soul consists of the [00:48:00] spirit and the body. And so we cannot do something to one without affecting the other. So when we're not taking care of our bodies, that's, that can affect us spiritually, right? 

And when we're not taking care of ourselves spiritually, that can affect us physically. And so understanding right now that how important. That connection is, and then also understanding that something that distracts us from that is an overemphasis on what our body looks like. It's a distraction from the adversary, right? 

If he can get us to focus so much on what we look like on us, on ourselves, who else are we thinking about? No one. We're thinking about ourselves. And so I think that it's just one of those things that we have to constantly remember, like why do we love to be around the people? We love to be around. [00:49:00] And I'll tell you one thing, my husband and I, we look nothing like we did when we first got married. 

I love him more than I ever have. It's the life that we've shared together. It's the experiences that we've had and, and I would say that that goes for everyone in our lives. The why, why I, I loved so much when I was here in the, the master's program, the, the public health program had professors that cared about us and loved us and, and taught us how to do good things, you know, to share with the world and take care of, of, of people and their health. 

You know, I think about. I think about my coworkers and the support that we give each other on hard days. I don't care what they look like. I do not. I don't, and I think all of us, when we really are honest with ourselves, can say the same thing. And that we need to remember that yeah, we, we eat healthy because it takes care of our soul. 

And we exercise because [00:50:00] it takes care of our soul, our spirit, and our body. If we're doing it because of how we look, that's empty. There's, there's really not a whole lot to gain from that, and there's so much to gain when we look at ourselves in a way of the incredible spiritual beings that we are and all the good that we can do when the focus isn't just on ourselves, but in a way caring for ourselves so that we can care for other people. 

Cougar: I was hoping you'd hit out of the park. You did. It's awesome. Thank you, Rachel. I, I just appreciate, there's one thing you said about, I, I appreciate everything you said. There's one thing you said about the adversary. It has struck me many times that he didn't get a body. Those who followed him didn't get a body. 

They want me to hate mine, and sometimes that's what I need to know when I need to remember that. I just, I just love what you brought in though, which I haven't thought about before this. [00:51:00] Preoccupation with myself and with how I look and with my body composition, it's distracting me from looking outward. 

I do believe 'cause I, I work in public health and I, I want to be not just a presenter of health information. I want to be a passionate promoter of health every second of every day. I do believe we have a stewardship to care for our body, which means to move more. For most of us, and for some of us from time to time, it means to eat less or make better food choices. 

I think. I think we have a stewardship there and I think you've kind of, you've kind of addressed that, but I know, I know for a certain that I'm also supposed to accept my body and recognize that it's getting older each day and that it, it may or may not look like the neighbor's body or the person at the gym or the athlete I'm seeing on television. 

And that's okay because we're different. We're different people. We were given different [00:52:00] bodies, and we have different capabilities and I'm, I'm thankful for that type of diversity. And it's okay. I'm gonna give you the last word, so if there's anything I should have asked but I didn't because I'm not the best host, then this is your time to, to shine Rachel. 

And I also want you to wrap up with what you're reading. Obviously you're writing a book, so that's really cool. And we will link that, uh, in our description. But what, is there something you're reading, something you're listening to? We are lifelong learners. Us here at BYU in academia. At least that's, that's our charge. 

So what's got you excited? Yeah, 

Rachel: well, I mean. I do like fantasy novels. I do have to put that out there. There's always a fantasy novel that I'm reading. I'm not gonna tell you what they are, but I do like that. But then I'm also reading a book right now called Good for a Girl and it's about a, a track athlete and her career as a collegiate athlete and the struggles of, you know, facing being a runner and facing eating disorders. 

And anyways, just in the [00:53:00] middle of it, but I'm absolutely. Loving it because I feel it's an untold story of so many female athletes. It's beautifully written, so I'm really enjoying that. I told you earlier, I love Outlive by Peter Attia. That is such a good book and one that I. We'll reread over and over and I love his personal stories that he shares. 

And then another book that I read was Why We Sleep. I can't think of the author's name right now. Yeah, 

Cougar: Matthew Walker. I know this one. Oh my God. It's fantastic. I 

Rachel: loved that book. And that's another one I started. I, I have some of these books I'll do like, on Audible, so that while I'm cleaning and doing laundry, I've, you know, I, it's just fun. 

I don't know. It, it makes me excited to do the laundry. I'm like, Ooh, I can listen to a book. So, yeah. So those, those are probably the. The ones that I've. Most recently been reading, so 

Cougar: I love it. Oh my goodness. So a fellow audible addict right here. Thank you. I feel much better about my [00:54:00] compulsion then. I just need to say thank you. 

I took way too much of your time today and I could, I could probably another two hours if, if, if you'd let me. But Rachel, thank you and thank you for all that you're doing. When BYU is successful in athletics, we'll know. We'll know who's behind their success. It's you, right? So it's 

Rachel: all the athletes. Yeah. 

Cougar: But thanks for being a host on On Y Health. We really appreciate your time and hope to have you back at some point. 

Rachel: I'd love to. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. 

Cougar: Thank you for joining us today. Catch us on our next episode and don't forget to subscribe to Future Y Health episodes.