Good Teachers Don’t Gatekeep Their Curriculum - with Byron Tanner

How far is too far when involving parents in the learning process? High school educator Byron Tanner takes the hot seat to share the best practices he implements in the classroom each year. 

Bio:

With 20 years of experience at Timpanogos High School, Byron Tanner currently teaches Health, CTE Health Science Courses, and Driver Ed and has spent three years as an assistant principal during an administrative assignment. Tanner graduated from BYU with a Bachelor’s degree in School Health Education and earned a Master’s degree from SUU in School Administration. He is married to Niki and together they have four wonderful children.

Recorded, Edited & Produced by Christy Gonzalez, Harper Xinyu Zhang, and Tanya Gale

Transcript

Cougar: [00:00:00] Mr. Byron Tanner, welcome to the Y Health Podcast. 

Byron: Good. Thank you. It's good to be here. 

Cougar: This is really selfish of me to invite you because, uh, you are a lifelong friend and, uh, I know you consider me a mentor, but I don't know if I've done much, uh, mentoring. You are just my hero. So, oh, 

Byron: That’s right back at you.

Cougar: Will you take a minute and introduce yourself to our listening audience.

Byron: So I'm Byron Tanner. Currently I'm a health educator at Timpanogos High School in Orem, Utah. I got my start here at BYU. I'm a BYU alum. Um, really got into, um, just this, this world of, of health education from, from Cougar, it's been 20, 22 years ago.

Byron: Uh, been been acquired a while. I was a, a student not knowing exactly what I wanted to do. Had some ideas. Came into a class that actually Cougar was just starting to teach here at BYU and fell in love with health education, saw how much influence, um, This content area [00:01:00] could have on, on individuals just because it, it influenced me so much.

Byron: And just seeing the impact Cougar had, on not only his STU students as I went to observe him in his high school classes, but just that personal impact on me and I fell in love with it and said, this is what I want to do for, for a long time. And so, as Cougar says, yeah, he's a mentor. He's one that, that got me through those, those first couple years of, of teaching.

Byron: Very grateful for him and, uh, just what he's done for me in my life and, and moving me forward. 

Cougar: Okay. Enough of that. Now, you have represented us so well. I, I can't count how many student teachers we have sent. To you over the years? 

Byron: There's been a couple. There's been a couple. 

Cougar: Yeah. You do such a good job in your classroom, but also in teaching new teachers and mentoring new teachers, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Cougar: It used to give me a lot of anxiety. I'd be in the back of the room thinking, oh, no, no, no, you need to say this. Don't. Oh, don't say that. So, yeah, it is really..

Byron: there's some times you have to, you bite your finger and just like, oh, okay, we'll just have a conversation later. And, um, kids are resilient a lot of [00:02:00] times that we can, we can…

Cougar: Kids endure. You're absolutely right. So let's do this because you and I just recently had, uh, quite a, quite an enjoyable conversation for me, talking philosophically Yeah. About teaching, not just about health education, but about teaching and the role of schools. And there's some interesting stuff going on in the state of Utah.

Byron: Yeah. Uh, from the State Board of Education all the way down to the Alpine School District, which is where you and I both live, where our. Where our kids attend school. So maybe give us just a brief overview of what's happening, so. One of the things that, uh, we did, especially at Timpanogos High School we have a wonderful principal, Dr.

Byron: Joe Jensen, um, who is really visionary. Just an individual who, who wants the best for students, really wants the students to be, Capable, competent citizens and just, just good human, human beings. And so as we, were exploring around, the Alpine School District has produced a, a vision for learning talking [00:03:00] about knowledge, skills, and dispositions of what those are, and that really gave us license at.

Byron: Timpanogos High School to dive into it. What, what is learning is learning, just being able to recite facts and regurgitate, or is it really developing these, these skills and dispositions that are gonna help kids be competent citizens and have good character throughout, throughout their lives. And, it's been a process, uh, uh, started really with developing our culture at Timpanogos High School, from a previous, Principal Aaron Murphy.

Byron: And that carried through Joe. And one nice thing, we're getting Darren Murphy back to Timpanogos High School, which is unfound. So we can continue in this, this movement forward. , but it's really the focus on developing, skills and dispositions. , a big light bulb came off for me is, um, we were thinking, okay, why, why did I get into education?

Byron: When I started as a teacher 20 years ago, I always had this hope that kids would be able to do things to help 'em be healthy, happy, competent, individuals. , but as those first couple years, it was always just a hope. I remember an experience that I walked [00:04:00] into the. Principal at that time's, , office, just brand new teacher.

Byron: And he asked me how, how's it going these first years? And I just said, I, I hope these kids are are doing these things. I hope they're getting it. And he kind of just off the hand and said, oh yeah, they probably are. and that just stayed with me for so long. And until we really started to dive in this, this process of developing a deeper learning amongst our students, I started to think, why am I just hoping.

Byron: That these students developed instead of going deliberately and really deliberately developing the skills and dispositions that they need to be these competent individuals. And so as we dove into that and really looked at, okay, how can we do this? There's a lot of shifts that had to be made from goals, from pedagogy, from assessments.

Byron: We started exploring and we found that the state, was really developing their own, um, Just roadmap to do this for, for students in the state of Utah they call it the talent map and look at, mastery, autonomy, and, and pedagogy. And [00:05:00] so as we saw this, we saw, hey, this is licensed to go full, full go.

Byron: That this is what we're about at Timpanogos High School is developing the skills and dispositions, to help students really be the very best that they can be. 

Cougar: Which is really cool for us health educators we've had our national health education standards since the mid 1990s, and seven of those eight standards are specific skills, whether it's goal setting, decision making, exactly how to access valid knowledge, self-management, advocacy, and on and on, right?

Cougar: So, so we've always been about skills. In fact, I've always told my pre-service teachers, I'm like, listen, we don't, we don't care that a young person can list all of the carcinogens in tobacco smoke. We don't want 'em to smoke, like, like we have to focus on those communication skills. Decision making skills…

Byron: Exactly.

Cougar: So, so now, Let's acknowledge that there's, there's a level of, of knowledge that needs to be acquired. We call it functional content knowledge. Yep. It's, it's that knowledge that [00:06:00] students need to know in order to engage in those skills. Right. But I think it was hard for me the first couple years, Byron, cuz I love health, that that's what drew me into this profession.

Cougar: So I think all the g whiz stuff is like, wow, this is so cool. Did you know? But you realize that so much of that. Does not have an impact in shaping their attitudes and their beliefs that would lead towards behavior change.

Byron: An analogy of that that we've kind of talked about that really helped me understand that is that oftentimes as teachers, we see our content, the things we're teaching as the Lamborghini. Everybody's gonna love being in this car, is the coolest thing. 

But the kids often see it as, The 12 passenger family van, where it's like, I don't want to get in that van. And so as we look at really going forward in, in helping kids understand who they can be, uh, we talk about that, hey, if we can help them understand what the destination, where we're going to, then kids will get into that 12 passenger family van.

Byron: Um, yeah, anybody's gonna step in the Lamborghini, but guess what? Kids don't see our [00:07:00] content, whether it's math, whether it's English. I mean there may be some who are really that way, but the majority see it as the the family van. But if we can help 'em understand what the destination is, this is where we're going, these skills and dispositions to really help you be a great human being.

Byron: Kids are gonna, kids are gonna get in there. 

Cougar: Yeah. And then suddenly it's not really about health education, it's about becoming a good citizen and developing those dispositions. But the health education is one of those, and it's a very important one of those vehicles that get 'em toward that destination.

Byron: Yeah. And I think it's that vital one that. All kids can connect with very few. I mean, you hear kids, oh, when am I gonna use math again? When and not downplaying those, those are important skills, but kids can connect to what healthcare education is. They can see that, uh, these, these decisions, these goals, these are things that are gonna impact them and impacting them right now in these years that we're, we're teaching them.

Byron: It's not something that, Oh, I'm gonna use 30 years down the road. Even though they are gonna continue to use these 30 years down the road, they're impacting them immediately. 

Cougar: It is really cool, isn't [00:08:00] it? Yeah. Every, everything we teach in, uh, health education class is applicable right now. Yep. And will be in two years and in 10 years and 20 years.

Cougar: Yep. It's, uh, it's been a challenge for me though, so, so Byron, you are one of our rock stars, and when I come and I observe, you teach, uh, like I can, I can warm the hands Yeah. On, on the flame of your enthusiasm and your faith and your excitement for the content and for the students. It's not like that in every class.

Cougar: I think health education, we, we still struggle whether we're asking teachers to teach the course and they're not. They're not trained, they're not prepared, or just they're not passionate about it. You and I have both done a little bit of coaching and my personal belief is if you can coach, you can absolutely teach.

Cougar: Yep. It's just, can you do both? Do you have the bandwidth? And so some of our best coaches who could also be our best teachers, they don't, they don't often, uh, Wind up being the best health educator simply because they're just, they're just pulled too [00:09:00] thin. They're just stretched too thin, I should say.

Cougar: Yeah. So it's, it, it's a challenge for health education. Yes. And I really have noticed that it's, it's not even school to school, it's teacher to teacher, classroom to classroom. Does is that teacher, is he or she passionate about what they teach and moreover passionate about who they teach? Yes. I try to tell my teachers, I'm like, listen, you don't teach health.

Cougar: You teach students? Yeah. You gotta connect with them. And if they know that you care about them and you love them, man, they will. They will learn the stuff and they will perform for you. And 

Cougar: it will make a difference. 

Byron: Yeah, they'll do it. And one of the things that as we, I work with a lot of new teachers, particularly at Timpanogos High School, and we try to, with, when those first news teachers first get into Timpanogos, we try to, we ask 'em, okay, what do you teach?

Byron: And they always say, oh, I teach math. I teach English. We say, okay. We're gonna change that. What you do, you teach skills and dispositions through math, through English, through health, and that's really what it is That, that our content, and particularly I love health and I'm, I'm all about it, that I'm really helping these [00:10:00] individuals become better educators through the content area that I have. 

And so as we look at that destination, as we look at that vision of what we want to do, I think one thing that really helps set apart a teacher is knowing what I want these students to walk out with. It's just not that they're gonna regurgitate some information to me and, pass a test.

Byron: Mm-hmm. That's, I didn't get into education for kids to get 80 percents on, on tests. I got into education, so, I can help these students become the best individuals that they, they can be. And so I think that's what, what brings me passion. And I mean, sometimes education is hard.

Byron: There's a lot of things placed on educators all the time, whether it be from whatever avenue there's things put on top of them. But if we can keep our, our mind in, Hey, this is what we're doing, that joy stays, there's a quote by Michael Fullon, that deep learning, these things, these skills, and dispositions, they bring the joy back into both teaching and learning for students.

Cougar: Yeah, no, absolutely. I can imagine if a parent, well, and I'm one listening to you thinking, okay, [00:11:00] I want my child in his class. 

Byron: [laughs] Hopefully. 

Cougar: I love it. I love it, and I know you're not perfect. None of us are. Uh, and it, it is, it's the hardest thing I've ever done. It's, uh, cuz it, it breaks your heart. 

Byron: Yeah. It's, there's draining times. There's times where you look back and just say, oh, I just, I, and again, that, that hope word in as much as, Hey, I hope this student continues to move forward. Um, but as much as we can, if we can be deliberate about those things that we want, that's where that success is gonna come for this space.

Cougar: Absolutely. 

Cougar: That's a great word. Let's be deliberate. What can a parent, let's start with a parent. Okay, let's go. Parent student teacher. Cuz this is, this is this trifecta here, right?

Cougar: Yeah. And give us , one or two things that each of those partners in the education process. Can do, maybe can do better or, or can focus their attention on so that we do reach these, these goals, these very lofty goals that we have as far as character and intellect and dispositions. 

Byron: As you bring up those, those three phases, I mean all these stakeholders [00:12:00] combined, you need all of them.

Byron: It can't just be the teachers, it can't just be the students. And for sure, I mean, parents have to be involved. That's one thing that I found as a school we're really working on to get. Everybody involved in moving forward to these, these deeper learning aspects, these skills and dispositions? 

I'm a parent. I'm young. My oldest is in eighth grade right now. and so I'm getting this experience of her not doing her assignments and different things that way. So it's really easy as a parent just to focus on the grades, saying, oh, you have this missing assignment, get this missing assignment in. But the actionable item, the one thing that I've learned is for parents to truly focus on the learning and not the grades.

Byron: Whatever they're doing, say, Hey, what are you learning? What's the outcome of this? Yeah, you're gonna have these assignments that come in. It's important to do this, but try to steer those conversations always to, to the learning. What are they learning? What are they getting out of this? Who are they becoming through this, through this subject?

Byron: It's too easy just as a parent to focus back again on the grades, but I think that's where, the anxiety [00:13:00] and the stress amongst students comes up that, Hey, I'm not, I'm not fulfilling these. These lofty expectations or whatever that grades bring. But if we as parents, focus on what are they learning right now and how are they becoming better adults? I think that's, more healthy, both mentally, emotionally for these kids.

Cougar: Amen. Oh my heavens. Amen. That's because the discuss, it's really easy just to check, you know, the online gradings. Yep. Platform and well, why didn't you get your last quiz in? Or it looks like you have an 86 and the students will say, oh, I know, but he hasn't graded that yet.

Cougar: Or, or there's still one more makeup and I'll have an A as if that's our goal. Yeah. And you know, if I can just add, there's plenty of concern nationwide about the various. Curriculum Health is one of those that parents are always like, well, what are they? But what are they saying about A, B, C, and D? What an opportunity, rather than checking on a grade to say, so what did you talk about today?

Cougar: In health? Yeah. Oh good. And what did you [00:14:00] learn? Yep. Oh, excellent. Now how does that juxtapose with what our family believes? 

Byron: Those values and beliefs are so important. And even just going in to talk about, okay, what are you able to do with these things? How are you becoming a, a better adult? And so I think that's so, so, so important. And just as we talk about with teachers, I mean just the actionable object for teachers, it's important to let parents know what the goal is.

Byron: I think too often as teachers, we get in our little silos. This is my classroom. I'm not gonna let anybody else know what we're doing. But as a teacher, it's important to let these parents be involved, um, let them have these conversations with the students. Um, one of the things they'll just, I mean, say Cougar gave me these ideas.

Byron: He did side orders for us as we're always learning. And I continue to do those where I have my students interview their parents and say, Hey, give me your opinion on this topic that we're talking about. And so they can learn these values and beliefs from their parents. And so, Parents really have that idea of what we're, what I'm doing as a teacher. They have that idea so they can have those, those conversations. 

Cougar: Yeah, [00:15:00] absolutely. I actually came up with these and they, I'm glad to hear you still call them side orders. Yes. Although it's, it doesn't really illustrate what the assignment is, but it. It's always a discussion that the student goes home and has with his or her parents or the entire family.

Cougar: Yeah. And that's because I was taught early on and there, and there's plenty of research to back this up now. It's just pretty cool. Like you have to send the message home. 

Byron: Yep. 

Cougar: We're working with great students. I love the students I taught at Timpanogos High School. Oh my heavens.

Byron: It's a wonderful community.

Cougar: I'm trying to promote, Healthy eating and you know, physical activity and stress management. Well, they're not the ones making all the decisions in their home. So to go home and include the parents and not to tell the parents, Hey, do a better job to say, Hey, have these discussions because…

Cougar: Man, I'm, I'm a parent too. I'm getting my teeth kicked in and sometimes I just need an invite. Yep. I mean, an invite to sit down and talk to my daughter about the expectations in our home, whether it's physical activity or nutrition or stress management or communication and social health, [00:16:00] or whether it is like sexuality and like relationships. Like, oh my heavens. Yeah. Thank you.

Byron: There’s no better time. I mean, if you can give that opening as a parent and say, oh, we're gonna talk about this. Yeah. Because most I'm learning right now, I have this young teenage daughter, Anytime you say, Hey, let's talk about this. And she's like, no way, dad, get, I don't want to have this conversation.

Byron: But if she's forced like, oh, I've gotta do this for a school assignment, it kind of opens the door up for me as it's your the door. It's nice that way. 

Cougar: It's. Awesome. Okay, so I think we've covered parents. We had some good advice there for teachers, which is, you know, don't be so territorial.

Cougar: Don't, don't close the door and try to keep the rest of the world out. Be welcoming. And if I can just add, I mean, as, as you're talking all, all of these, this. The flood of experiences are coming back. I remember it was year one or two, and I had a parent who came in and you could tell the look in her eyes, she was loaded for bear and I think she had just received this parent guardian permission form for the sexuality education unit.

Cougar: And she was there to say, my, my child's not gonna be in this [00:17:00] class. And I greeted her with a smile and I said, I am so glad that you took the time to come and talk to me. Can I remind you that I work for you, the taxpayer? And. And can I also add that these are topics that absolutely should be taught in the home?

Cougar: I got about that far and she said, well, tell me what you're gonna talk about because I kind of, yeah, I, and I think 15 minutes later she's like, okay, yeah, I can't wait for my daughter to be in your class! 

Byron: I've had, I've had those same experiences where, I mean, these. The parents as they come in. I mean, there's a, there's a nervousness.

Byron: I mean, in our society and especially in the culture that we're living here in, in Utah, sometimes there's some nervousness about Yeah, what may be there. But as we, I mean, share really what our purposes are. This is what we're striving to do. I mean, that's what parents want outta education. Yeah. That's why, I mean, that's why I send my kids to school is so that they can become a better person.

Byron: Yeah. So they can develop these skills and dispositions do things so they can be competent, happy, healthy individuals. 

Cougar: So we [00:18:00] as teachers, we can be much more transparent, much more inviting. Exactly. And, and have much thicker skin, if I might add, like how my heavens, I mean, from a gospel perspective, okay.

Cougar: Heavenly Father entrusted those kids to you and your spouse. And, I think I'm doing good things in my classroom and I, I, I really want to help young people and encourage them, but my heaven's like you have that stewardship and you get to make that decision. I'm on your side. Yeah. But ultimately you and your child, you, you guys can discuss this and you guys can make the decision that works best for you and your family.

Cougar: I don't need to take it personally. I, I just don't, I just It's okay. It's okay. 

Byron: Exactly. 

Cougar: In through the nose, out through the mouth. 

Byron: We we're all, we're all gonna be Okay. We can do it. 

Byron: As we said, sometimes teaching can be hard.

Byron: There's a lot piled on to you, but if you can truly just keep in mind what you're doing and not worry about all the other stuff, I go back to a, a talk from Elder Utchorf from a couple years ago, general confidence, where he talks about giving our heart full heart. Heartfelt all. Yeah. That at times in life when we look [00:19:00] at all the things that we're asked to do to follow the savior, and if we see a hundred different things to do, it becomes very overwhelming.

Byron: Yeah. But if we can focus in on saying, you know what my ultimate goal division is, I'm gonna serve God and serve his children. All those a hundred things become one thing and it's just doing that one thing a hundred different ways and that—Elder Utchdorf says—that becomes less overbearing. That we can, we can do these things.

Byron: And I think that's the same in in teaching, that if we can look what our ultimate purposes is, yeah. That we're developing skills and dispositions, we're helping these kids become better people. All these other hundreds of things that we have to do. You know what, that's really where the joy comes into to teaching that way.

Cougar: I love that. Oh, that's really good. And I'm sure he equated that somehow to flying an airplane, but that's okay. 

Byron: There is, it was on the top. Just I went and read back on, on that talk and it's like, okay, there's some airplanes. 

Cougar: You're terrific. I love it. Okay, so what can students do? Students need to take ownership of their education here. I can't wait to hear. We have to say. 

Byron: and there's, I mean, in a culture, there's a huge part of, of [00:20:00] self-governing. I mean, it's the student's education they need to self-govern. One, I, since Covid attendance has been a problem. It's a, it's a problem everywhere. Mm-hmm. In the high schools that so many, just see that, I mean, oh, I can do this online.

Byron: I can do this online. But truly what I've experienced is the connection is what matters most. That's really what's gonna bring this growth. That's what's gonna bring, the, the development, that the progress forward is developing. That, that connection, not only with, with the teacher. Not only with the other students in the class, but also the connection with the content that as they see that content, they can realize this is the vehicle that I have to move forward to developing these, these dispositions that I'm gonna use for the rest of my life.

Byron: I think that's important. A really important part is students to try to connect themselves. Don't be like, oh, this is a waste of time. That find that, Hey, what is what I'm doing right now? How is that helping me move forward to be a better person? 

Cougar: Exactly. I'm thinking about my own kids right now and, two [00:21:00] things I always used to say to them is they left the door and headed out for school.

Cougar: One was to be their best. Not the best, but to be their best. And then whatever that is, be really happy and proud of that. And I, I, I think that's important. I sense students today are feeling more competitive and more, you know, more intimidation than ever before. And so just to recognize, do your very best and that's enough. And then the other thing, and if, if my kids by chance ever listen to this, Byron, they'll, they'll have a little throw up in their mouth. I always told them like, spend most of your time doing those things that are most important. Yeah. Doesn't mean you can't look at your phone from time to time or put your earbuds in.

Cougar: Doesn't mean you can't play a video game. Listen to some tunes. By heavens, yeah. I mean, I do those things too, but are we spending most of our time doing things that are most important, that are, that are really gonna provide meaning and purpose in our lives and and allow us to prepare for a successful future, however we define that for [00:22:00] ourselves, right?

Cougar: Yep. Well said. Most important stuff. 

Byron: Well said. Well said.

Cougar: I'm wondering if you can, I only have one child at home. Can I send her to your place? Because you're clearly better than I am, and she's already heard all my stuff. 

Byron: [laughs] Don’t ask, don't ask my kids. They're, no, they're wonderful. It's, I mean, parenting is a thing that, it's a, it's a work in progress. It keeps us humble, doesn't it? 

Cougar: for sure. Yeah. I just, I didn't it. At the times when I do the opportunities that I do, and they're not very many anymore, but the opportunities I do have, um, to speak to parents, I usually tell them that they're, they're most likely doing far better than they think they are or that they give theirselves credit for.

Cougar: And I, I think once your kids get about your, you know, you said you have an eighth grader. Yep. That's when you truly realize, I need the other villagers. It takes a village.

Byron: There's more people around and so much, whether it, whether it's church and whether it's these in the education system, I'm, I'm a huge proponent public school teacher.

Byron: I, I love the teachers that my daughter has right now, and they're having a huge impact on her. Yeah. And so as I look, and it's, it's good to, to be involved as a [00:23:00] parent, have these constant conversations to enforce our values and beliefs that we have. Um, but take what they're learning from these educators and yeah, hope we become that well diversified human being.

Byron: Really cool. 

Cougar: So you're 20 years in, but you're still talking like, Hey, this is awesome. This, this is what gets me up in the morning. So I always ask our guests, what are you reading right now? What are you listening to? Maybe it's a podcast, maybe you got something on Audible. What are you listening to? So the, hey, you can be a lifelong learner. But to keep your, uh, I mean to sharpen your saws.

Byron: And that’s one thing. I mean, progression is always important. You always gotta get better. And as I've. Really went down this deeper learning road, developing skills and dispositions. I've learned, I've had to make so many adjustments. I can't do what I was doing 15, 10, even five years ago.

Byron: Um, that when I really, we started talking about this and I dove into, uh, some authors and health education and found out, okay, this is what skills-based health ed education focusing on these are. I realized I've gotta make a lot of changes. And so first I had to [00:24:00] make some changes on, on goals. What were the things that I, I'm aiming for?

Byron: Then I had to make a lot of changes on, on pedagogy and different things there, and then I'm coming to assessment and, and grading, and so that's really what's moving me forward. I feel like there's a lot of adjustments that I need to make in, in how I grade and how I communicate with students. And so what I'm, I'm reading right now is a, a book by Thomas Guskey called on Your Mark and really talks about how we can um, really communicate with our students through the grades that we give them. Um, we're, we're in the system that, that we have to give grades. We have to do these things, but how can we communicate with our students to help 'em move forward, uh, to develop these skills and dispositions that we're, we're aiming for, that we're just not throwing out a, a grade.

Byron: Just say, ah, you did it. But to inform them to say, okay, now I can improve and get better in all that I, that I do. So I'm really, really into his work right now. 

Cougar: So it actually provides them some useful feedback. 

Byron: Exactly. 

Cougar: [00:25:00] So it can be formative is what we call that formative assessment is, is informing you as an instructor and the student as well as far as how they're doing on that learning path. But it can also be summative from time to time. It can be a gatekeeping function. It can be a, here's an actual score that I've entered and we're gonna quantify as we calculate your Yeah. Your percentage as we put those in.

Byron: Yeah. And just there's so many. Aspects of what a grade means. Um, and so he's just had some really good insight and some work. I'm just really diving into the beginning of, of his book that he has. Cool. And that's really moving me forward. That's, that's my professional development efforts right now, that when I think about professional developments, uh, it's not just, um, Going to the dentist one time and brushing my teeth right before it's, Hey, I've gotta brush my teeth every day.

Byron: And that's what I mean, as an educator, what I believe professional development is we're doing something constantly. Yeah. Um, and to, to improve and get better. We can't just set our butt in the seat for one day and say, okay, I'm professionally developed. We have to continually do that. 

Cougar: Now it's making sense why when I sit in your classroom, it's so good.

Cougar: It's uh, you know, they say some teachers teach [00:26:00] one year, 30 times. Other teachers teach 30 years and there's a, and that, and that difference is what you're talking about. It's revisiting everything you do.

Byron: Yep. Constant reflection, 

Cougar: Looking under every rock and saying, how do I improve here? Yep. Uh, with, with a student and student learning and their dispositions and their future in mind.

Cougar: Ah, Byron, again, it's been a pleasure, my friend. Can we have you back tomorrow? What do you say?

Byron: I, I, I don't know tomorrow, but no, I, I love this. I, I love talking with Cougar. You are just such a, a great mentor. Uh, as we've talked in the past. He's, you've, you've made a huge impact in, in my life and my career, so I just have to make sure, you know, you know that how much I appreciate you.

Cougar: That means a lot, my friend. I appreciate it. Let's go to a BYU game this fall. What do you say?

Byron: Hey, I can always do that. All right, so go Cougs.

Cougar: Thanks, Byron. 

Byron: Okay. Appreciate it, Cougar. Thanks.